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	<title>Comments on: Race Reflection 2: Affirmative Action &amp; The Supreme Court</title>
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	<link>http://www.iddream.com/2005/09/23/race-reflection-2-affirmative-action-the-supreme-court/</link>
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		<title>By: jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.iddream.com/2005/09/23/race-reflection-2-affirmative-action-the-supreme-court/comment-page-1/#comment-200</link>
		<dc:creator>jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Nov 2005 07:43:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iddream.com/plete/?p=98#comment-200</guid>
		<description>Wow 30 comments!&#160; One day I will have time to read them all and respond.&#160; Check back in a few weeks.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow 30 comments!&nbsp; One day I will have time to read them all and respond.&nbsp; Check back in a few weeks.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://www.iddream.com/2005/09/23/race-reflection-2-affirmative-action-the-supreme-court/comment-page-1/#comment-199</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Oct 2005 15:16:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iddream.com/plete/?p=98#comment-199</guid>
		<description>Well, as is usually the case with our extended discussions, I feel like I learned a few things.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, as is usually the case with our extended discussions, I feel like I learned a few things.</p>
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		<title>By: Randy Bishop</title>
		<link>http://www.iddream.com/2005/09/23/race-reflection-2-affirmative-action-the-supreme-court/comment-page-1/#comment-198</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy Bishop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Oct 2005 02:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iddream.com/plete/?p=98#comment-198</guid>
		<description>Yeah, it kinda made this discussion look like a waste of time.


On the plus side (or negative, depending on how you look at it) this was the longest discussion ever on the site.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, it kinda made this discussion look like a waste of time.</p>
<p>On the plus side (or negative, depending on how you look at it) this was the longest discussion ever on the site.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://www.iddream.com/2005/09/23/race-reflection-2-affirmative-action-the-supreme-court/comment-page-1/#comment-197</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Oct 2005 00:31:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iddream.com/plete/?p=98#comment-197</guid>
		<description>The Wikipedia entry contains interesting and compelling arguments supporting both sides of the debate.&#160; I won&#8217;t bother to copy and paste any of them, as I assume you&#8217;ve read the entire entry.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Wikipedia entry contains interesting and compelling arguments supporting both sides of the debate.&nbsp; I won&#8217;t bother to copy and paste any of them, as I assume you&#8217;ve read the entire entry.</p>
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		<title>By: Randy Bishop</title>
		<link>http://www.iddream.com/2005/09/23/race-reflection-2-affirmative-action-the-supreme-court/comment-page-1/#comment-196</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy Bishop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Sep 2005 23:57:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iddream.com/plete/?p=98#comment-196</guid>
		<description>If a university student body contains a 50% male, 50% female mix and that university&#8217;s sport was 80% male, 20% female Title IX goes into effect. And you agree with it.


If an auto factory is located in a city with a 50% white, 50% black population and that factories labor force is 80% white, 20% black affirmative action goes into effect.&#160; And you disagree with it.


Affirmative action is a form of reversing racial discrimination, not promoting it.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Tell you what - if and when racial harmony is a reality, you and I will look back at how it was accomplished and decide who was right.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Wikipedia.org&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;From 1960 to 1995, according to data in The Shape of the River by William G. Bowen and Derek Bok, the percentage of blacks aged 25–29 who had graduated from college rose from 5.4 to 15.4%, the percentage of blacks in law school grew from below 1 to 7.5%, and the percentage of blacks in medical school increased from 2.2 to 8.1%.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If a university student body contains a 50% male, 50% female mix and that university&#8217;s sport was 80% male, 20% female Title IX goes into effect. And you agree with it.</p>
<p>If an auto factory is located in a city with a 50% white, 50% black population and that factories labor force is 80% white, 20% black affirmative action goes into effect.&nbsp; And you disagree with it.</p>
<p>Affirmative action is a form of reversing racial discrimination, not promoting it.</p>
<blockquote><p>Tell you what &#8211; if and when racial harmony is a reality, you and I will look back at how it was accomplished and decide who was right.</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action" rel="nofollow">Wikipedia.org</a></p>
<blockquote><p>From 1960 to 1995, according to data in The Shape of the River by William G. Bowen and Derek Bok, the percentage of blacks aged 25–29 who had graduated from college rose from 5.4 to 15.4%, the percentage of blacks in law school grew from below 1 to 7.5%, and the percentage of blacks in medical school increased from 2.2 to 8.1%.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://www.iddream.com/2005/09/23/race-reflection-2-affirmative-action-the-supreme-court/comment-page-1/#comment-195</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Sep 2005 22:22:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iddream.com/plete/?p=98#comment-195</guid>
		<description>&quot;The former involves sex and promotes equality, the latter involves race and promotes discrimination.&#8221;


I apologize for not being explicit enough.&#160; Allow me to revise this to read:


The former involves sex and promotes gender equality, the latter involves race and promotes racial discrimination.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The former involves sex and promotes equality, the latter involves race and promotes discrimination.&#8221;</p>
<p>I apologize for not being explicit enough.&nbsp; Allow me to revise this to read:</p>
<p>The former involves sex and promotes gender equality, the latter involves race and promotes racial discrimination.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://www.iddream.com/2005/09/23/race-reflection-2-affirmative-action-the-supreme-court/comment-page-1/#comment-194</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Sep 2005 22:10:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iddream.com/plete/?p=98#comment-194</guid>
		<description>Like I said, it&#8217;s a matter of opinion at this point.&#160; Some, including yourself, believe that establishing policies of inequality is the way to ultimately achieve racial equality.&#160; Others, like me, believe that policies of equality are the proper route.&#160; Tell you what - if and when racial harmony is a reality, you and I will look back at how it was accomplished and decide who was right.


Re: the Title IX thing, you&#8217;re glossing over a crucial point -  Title IX affects all races equally, thus it does not promote racial inequality in any way, while promoting equal opportunity between the sexes.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like I said, it&#8217;s a matter of opinion at this point.&nbsp; Some, including yourself, believe that establishing policies of inequality is the way to ultimately achieve racial equality.&nbsp; Others, like me, believe that policies of equality are the proper route.&nbsp; Tell you what &#8211; if and when racial harmony is a reality, you and I will look back at how it was accomplished and decide who was right.</p>
<p>Re: the Title IX thing, you&#8217;re glossing over a crucial point &#8211;  Title IX affects all races equally, thus it does not promote racial inequality in any way, while promoting equal opportunity between the sexes.</p>
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		<title>By: Randy Bishop</title>
		<link>http://www.iddream.com/2005/09/23/race-reflection-2-affirmative-action-the-supreme-court/comment-page-1/#comment-193</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy Bishop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Sep 2005 21:40:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iddream.com/plete/?p=98#comment-193</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The latter involves race and promotes discrimination.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Only if minority and majority were already equal.


What if, because of Title IX, a school had to cancel some boys teams in order to raise the funds for girls teams?&#160; Therefore by your logic, Title IX would involve sex and promote discrimination.

&lt;blockquote&gt;THE AXE CONTINUES TO FALL ON MEN’S SPORTS PROGRAMS EVERYWHERE


Since the last Task Force Media Notes, men’s athletic programs have been slashed on college campuses across the nation. The victims were not just wrestlers - they were male athletes in a variety of sports. They all have been axed because of the gender quotas that are being forced upon athletic departments in the name of Title IX.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.themat.com/articles/showquestion.asp?faq=27&amp;fldAuto=424&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;1998 NCAA TITLE IX SEMINAR VIOLATES PROPORTIONALITY&lt;/a&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The latter involves race and promotes discrimination.</p></blockquote>
<p>Only if minority and majority were already equal.</p>
<p>What if, because of Title IX, a school had to cancel some boys teams in order to raise the funds for girls teams?&nbsp; Therefore by your logic, Title IX would involve sex and promote discrimination.</p>
<blockquote><p>THE AXE CONTINUES TO FALL ON MEN’S SPORTS PROGRAMS EVERYWHERE</p>
<p>Since the last Task Force Media Notes, men’s athletic programs have been slashed on college campuses across the nation. The victims were not just wrestlers &#8211; they were male athletes in a variety of sports. They all have been axed because of the gender quotas that are being forced upon athletic departments in the name of Title IX.</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.themat.com/articles/showquestion.asp?faq=27&amp;fldAuto=424" rel="nofollow">1998 NCAA TITLE IX SEMINAR VIOLATES PROPORTIONALITY</a></p>
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		<title>By: Randy Bishop</title>
		<link>http://www.iddream.com/2005/09/23/race-reflection-2-affirmative-action-the-supreme-court/comment-page-1/#comment-192</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy Bishop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Sep 2005 21:38:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iddream.com/plete/?p=98#comment-192</guid>
		<description>Back to the main point.&#160; That of Thomas&#8217; paternalism argument.

&lt;blockquote&gt;It reinforces the racial paternalism argument by insinuating that minorities need help from the majority because it’s too hard to make it without that help.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I feel one could reverse this logic and state something like:


It’s too hard to prevent racial discrimination from the majority.&#160; Especially with the current climate of a near white artistocracy dominating politics, business, and resources. Therefore blanketing minorities with slight advantages can offset potential (and sometimes obvious) disadvantages the majority can/will/does against them.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back to the main point.&nbsp; That of Thomas&#8217; paternalism argument.</p>
<blockquote><p>It reinforces the racial paternalism argument by insinuating that minorities need help from the majority because it’s too hard to make it without that help.</p></blockquote>
<p>I feel one could reverse this logic and state something like:</p>
<p>It’s too hard to prevent racial discrimination from the majority.&nbsp; Especially with the current climate of a near white artistocracy dominating politics, business, and resources. Therefore blanketing minorities with slight advantages can offset potential (and sometimes obvious) disadvantages the majority can/will/does against them.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://www.iddream.com/2005/09/23/race-reflection-2-affirmative-action-the-supreme-court/comment-page-1/#comment-191</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Sep 2005 21:33:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iddream.com/plete/?p=98#comment-191</guid>
		<description>If you&#8217;re asking if I am in favor of Title IX, the answer is yes.&#160; What the article describes is, in my estimation, a step in the wrong direction.


If you&#8217;re implying that it is contradictory to be in favor of Title IX, yet oppose some applications of affirmative action, I would disagree with you.&#160; The former involves sex and promotes equality, the latter involves race and promotes discrimination.


Your last paragraph makes it apparent that you feel the best way to combat discrimination and eradicate racism is with more discrimination.&#160; I guess we&#8217;ll have to agree to disagree on that point.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you&#8217;re asking if I am in favor of Title IX, the answer is yes.&nbsp; What the article describes is, in my estimation, a step in the wrong direction.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re implying that it is contradictory to be in favor of Title IX, yet oppose some applications of affirmative action, I would disagree with you.&nbsp; The former involves sex and promotes equality, the latter involves race and promotes discrimination.</p>
<p>Your last paragraph makes it apparent that you feel the best way to combat discrimination and eradicate racism is with more discrimination.&nbsp; I guess we&#8217;ll have to agree to disagree on that point.</p>
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