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	<title>Comments on: Discombobulation</title>
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		<title>By: Cas Kopacki</title>
		<link>http://www.iddream.com/2005/11/29/discombobulation/comment-page-1/#comment-112</link>
		<dc:creator>Cas Kopacki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Dec 2005 09:13:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>-Based on its aformentioned position on homosexuality, the Church would seemingly prefer that homosexuals either live non-gay lives, or leave the Church entirely.-


I must clarify that the Church&#8217;s policy for homosexuals is much like the cloudy clergy issue: being homosexual is okay, but practicing homosexuality is not.&#160; It&#8217;s all a bit convoluted and ill-advised in its muddiness, but we ARE talkling about the Catholic Church.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>-Based on its aformentioned position on homosexuality, the Church would seemingly prefer that homosexuals either live non-gay lives, or leave the Church entirely.-</p>
<p>I must clarify that the Church&#8217;s policy for homosexuals is much like the cloudy clergy issue: being homosexual is okay, but practicing homosexuality is not.&nbsp; It&#8217;s all a bit convoluted and ill-advised in its muddiness, but we ARE talkling about the Catholic Church.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://www.iddream.com/2005/11/29/discombobulation/comment-page-1/#comment-111</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2005 23:34:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Your logic is right on, Randy.


&#8220;But once a man kisses a man he’s done?&#8221;


One point about this question, though.&#160; Lots of people believe one can be &#8220;cured&#8221; of homosexuality.&#160; So I suppose if a person underwent such a &#8220;cure&#8221;, asked forgiveness, and lived a straight life from then on, they&#8217;d be OK in the eyes of the Church.&#160; So this would be the Church&#8217;s &#8220;escape clause&#8221; on the matter.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your logic is right on, Randy.</p>
<p>&#8220;But once a man kisses a man he’s done?&#8221;</p>
<p>One point about this question, though.&nbsp; Lots of people believe one can be &#8220;cured&#8221; of homosexuality.&nbsp; So I suppose if a person underwent such a &#8220;cure&#8221;, asked forgiveness, and lived a straight life from then on, they&#8217;d be OK in the eyes of the Church.&nbsp; So this would be the Church&#8217;s &#8220;escape clause&#8221; on the matter.</p>
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		<title>By: Cas Kopacki</title>
		<link>http://www.iddream.com/2005/11/29/discombobulation/comment-page-1/#comment-110</link>
		<dc:creator>Cas Kopacki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2005 22:28:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.iddream.com/plete/?p=79#comment-110</guid>
		<description>In the few minutes I have here before I need to run, all I can state is this:


&#8220;Don&#8217;t Ask, Don&#8217;t Tell&#8221; all over again.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the few minutes I have here before I need to run, all I can state is this:</p>
<p>&#8220;Don&#8217;t Ask, Don&#8217;t Tell&#8221; all over again.</p>
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		<title>By: Randy Bishop</title>
		<link>http://www.iddream.com/2005/11/29/discombobulation/comment-page-1/#comment-109</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy Bishop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2005 21:25:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;To accept an openly gay priest would be to contradict a larger Church policy.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yet, not accepting a gay priest is contradictory to the recently stated Church policy:

&lt;blockquote&gt;But the paper also stresses the Church’s deep respect for homosexuals, who, it says, should by no means be discriminated against.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I agree with&#8230;

&lt;blockquote&gt;The Church would seemingly prefer that homosexuals either live non-gay lives, or leave the Church entirely.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

But anything purposefully excluding potential attendees while Catholicism in America is reportedly in decline can&#8217;t be the strongest move.

&lt;blockquote&gt;If a candidate practices homosexuality, or presents deep-seated homosexual tendencies&#8230;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Let me get this right guys, in essence, the Church is between a rock and a hard place.&#160; On one hand they&#8217;ve declared homosexuality a sin of choice, on the other they&#8217;ve basically stated it’s a sin one can&#8217;t come back from (deep-seated tendencies don&#8217;t go away). Usually a few Hail Mary’s after a trip to confession and you&#8217;re forgiven.&#160; But once a man kisses a man he&#8217;s done?
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>To accept an openly gay priest would be to contradict a larger Church policy.</p></blockquote>
<p>Yet, not accepting a gay priest is contradictory to the recently stated Church policy:</p>
<blockquote><p>But the paper also stresses the Church’s deep respect for homosexuals, who, it says, should by no means be discriminated against.</p></blockquote>
<p>I agree with&#8230;</p>
<blockquote><p>The Church would seemingly prefer that homosexuals either live non-gay lives, or leave the Church entirely.</p></blockquote>
<p>But anything purposefully excluding potential attendees while Catholicism in America is reportedly in decline can&#8217;t be the strongest move.</p>
<blockquote><p>If a candidate practices homosexuality, or presents deep-seated homosexual tendencies&#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>Let me get this right guys, in essence, the Church is between a rock and a hard place.&nbsp; On one hand they&#8217;ve declared homosexuality a sin of choice, on the other they&#8217;ve basically stated it’s a sin one can&#8217;t come back from (deep-seated tendencies don&#8217;t go away). Usually a few Hail Mary’s after a trip to confession and you&#8217;re forgiven.&nbsp; But once a man kisses a man he&#8217;s done?</p>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://www.iddream.com/2005/11/29/discombobulation/comment-page-1/#comment-108</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2005 21:01:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;So, what is the difference if a priest is straight or gay?&#8221;


To accept an openly gay priest would be to contradict a larger Church policy, which is that homosexuality is not condonable.&#160; Whether or not THAT position should change is a different debate, but it answers your question.&#160; Furthermore, placing an openly gay priest at the head of a congregation would encourage his gay parishoners and gay Catholics everywhere, who otherwise would have concealed their gay-ness, to be openly gay themselves.&#160; Based on its aformentioned position on homosexuality, the Church would seemingly prefer that homosexuals  either live non-gay lives, or leave the Church entirely.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;So, what is the difference if a priest is straight or gay?&#8221;</p>
<p>To accept an openly gay priest would be to contradict a larger Church policy, which is that homosexuality is not condonable.&nbsp; Whether or not THAT position should change is a different debate, but it answers your question.&nbsp; Furthermore, placing an openly gay priest at the head of a congregation would encourage his gay parishoners and gay Catholics everywhere, who otherwise would have concealed their gay-ness, to be openly gay themselves.&nbsp; Based on its aformentioned position on homosexuality, the Church would seemingly prefer that homosexuals  either live non-gay lives, or leave the Church entirely.</p>
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		<title>By: Cas Kopacki</title>
		<link>http://www.iddream.com/2005/11/29/discombobulation/comment-page-1/#comment-107</link>
		<dc:creator>Cas Kopacki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2005 19:08:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Well, exactly, which is why the language is so confusing in this document: orientation vs. tendencies.&#160; But, that line from Isaiah puts things plainly, I believe, and the institutional run-around is to call homosexuality a choice.&#160; Not to equate mental illness with homosexuality, but humans sometimes are mentally ill, not by choice.&#160; Sometimes humans are born with physical defects.&#160; We are as we are.&#160; We are as God made us.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, exactly, which is why the language is so confusing in this document: orientation vs. tendencies.&nbsp; But, that line from Isaiah puts things plainly, I believe, and the institutional run-around is to call homosexuality a choice.&nbsp; Not to equate mental illness with homosexuality, but humans sometimes are mentally ill, not by choice.&nbsp; Sometimes humans are born with physical defects.&nbsp; We are as we are.&nbsp; We are as God made us.</p>
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		<title>By: Randy Bishop</title>
		<link>http://www.iddream.com/2005/11/29/discombobulation/comment-page-1/#comment-106</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy Bishop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2005 19:02:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;And now, O Lord, thou art our father, and we are clay: and thou art our maker, and we all are the works of thy hands (Isaiah 64:8).&#160; That is a little difficult to get around if you’re a Christian.&#160; Basically, the passage says that we are all creations of God and we are as we are because of God.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Don&#8217;t Christians get around this by declaring homosexuality is a choice, not something one is born with?
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>And now, O Lord, thou art our father, and we are clay: and thou art our maker, and we all are the works of thy hands (Isaiah 64:8).&nbsp; That is a little difficult to get around if you’re a Christian.&nbsp; Basically, the passage says that we are all creations of God and we are as we are because of God.</p></blockquote>
<p>Don&#8217;t Christians get around this by declaring homosexuality is a choice, not something one is born with?</p>
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